An Email Exchange with Former American and NCAA Record Holder, 22.52M, John Brenner

DOB: January 4th, 1961

Fullerton High School Class of 1979

UCLA Class of 1984

1984 NCAA Champion in the Shot Put

1984 NCAA Champion in the Discus

Former Collegiate Record Holder in the Shot Put

3rd Place at the 1987 World Championships in Rome, Italy

PB: 22.52, 73-10.75

Q: How did you get your start in throwing?

My original coach in H.S. was Hugo Degroot. He was a very successful Javelin thrower at USC way back in the day and he had also coached the former USA HS record holder Natalie Kaaiawahia. Hugo was a Randy Matson follower, very little Feuerbach, where he would show me tapes of Randy 90% of the time and just a smidge of Al. 

Truth is I was all football, but my brother was a great football player two grades above me. One day my sophomore year, he and I were out at the track. He did triple jumps, long jumps, high jumps, and then walked over to discus and shot. As a sophomore, I was out throwing him in both that day, he never returned and I never looked back. It was the only sole thing I could beat my brother at. I said “wow, this shot is a pain in ass to throw, but maybe i should focus on it versus football!”

I still had thoughts of football through my junior year. But, my senior year the coach got fired at my H.S. My new coach put me as lineman due to my size versus others, but still I was the fastest on the team. But, he didn't care, I was a lineman by his call out and I dropped out of football and went to track.

In 1979, my senior year of H.S my PR was like 63 and I had a terrible state meet and got 3rd, so I was ticked and wanted to keep throwing and got in a somewhat national meet up in Sacramento. [It was] where [Michael Carter] threw 81, but what most don't know was 2nd place was 17 feet less then Mike and it was a PR and that PR was mine. I threw like 64+ for a big PR for me. I nearly quit track as how in the world can you PR and get beat like that and truly that day changed my throwing life. We then threw the 16, Mike threw like 66 feet, he beat all of us with the 16, that almost made more of an impact to me that day then his 81, to see that big ball fly. That far versus my 12lb just killed me, but yes it motivated me to get him in the end! Anyway that was H.S.

*Brenner’s brother Hoby was a 13 year NFL tight end for the New Orleans Saints, where he was a 1987 Pro-Bowl selection and inducted into the Saints Hall of Fame.

*Brenner’s High School Progression with the 12 lb Shot Put:

1978 Junior Year: 60-11

1979 Senior Year: 64-5.5

Q: How did you land at UCLA?

I went to UCLA, but I was torn between UCLA and CSUN due to Art Venegas being at CSUN. I thought I could do okay at UCLA without Art, but after 6 months I found out I made a mistake. Few know or realize this, but I left UCLA, and by that time Art went to Cal State Long Beach. I would drive every day from UCLA after the season was over, until I walked out of UCLA, then I moved home, went to a Junior College near my home and drove to Long Beach daily. Art after 2 years at Long Beach said he could not make that 80 mile drive anymore. [Coach Jim Bush] brought Art on at UCLA, and I went back after a year away.

So, I was without Art in 1980, the 56’ year, and then working with him but in a very difficult sort of way. I was driving to him from my hometown daily so the 56’ to 59’ was an improvement, but truthfully my 1st year back with Art at UCLA [resulted in] 64 feet. That year felt like a big change, from there I was in a good program, good coach, and all was well.

I had sort of a magical experience there at UCLA with having my dream coach and a very solid school and program.

*Brenner’s Progression in College with the 16 lb Shot Put:

1980 UCLA First Year: 56-1

1981 Fullerton CC: 59-0.75

1982 UCLA Second Year: 64-8

1983 UCLA Third Year: 68-3

1984 UCLA Fourth Year: 71-11

Q. Walk me through 1984, your 5th year of UCLA.

My entire focus was to get Mike. It took 5 years and Mike by that 1984 outdoor NCAA meet had 7 titles, 4 indoors and 3 outdoors, but I barely beat him and reality is, I was 100% satisfied with that [result]. I didn't give a care in the world about the LA Olympics. Now 40 years, we should have focused on the Olympics as they last. This was after the oddity of winning NCAA discus that year, which I nor no one expected to happen, but discus was first then shot second.  

If you haven't competed internationally, the rules of the game were different, no tape on your hand or knuckles, where I had tape everywhere as my hands were a mess up until 88. At the Olympic Trials, they treat it just like the games, so only out of the box new shots. Where I had the same shot from 1980 to 84: it was an old cast iron cheap shot that fit my hand and chin. So, I went to the Trials with no tape, no use of my shot and I was a mess. 1st throw destroyed my hand in prelims, where I went from beating Mike 71 11 to losing to Mike at around 67 something.

I was crazy dedicated, where I didn’t go to UCLA basketball games ever or football ever because I [wanted] to save my legs for workouts.

Q: How much volume of throwing did you do?

I would say a typical practice was 10 or so non-reverse stands. My hand was bad, really really bad, talking maybe in 1979 to 1987 I had 100 shots of cortisone in my hand. It still hurts today. Then, maybe half the reps in reverses. So, around 5 to 6 and when I hit what I did in the non-reverse I’d stop. I’d then most of the time go to glide non-reverse and I'd do a lot…[maybe] 20 to 25 and when it really felt solid I'd go to reverse. Maybe 8-12. I get tired just thinking of reverses because they took a lot of energy. But, probably 4 days a week, maybe some weeks 3 and some others 5 depending on if there was a meet or not.

I can say 100% that my non-reverse was the same as my reverse in both stand and glide. If I could stand 65 non i could do a reverse and hold it at 65 as well same on glide. Now, I was not a practice thrower and was always 2-4 feet off in practice vs. a meet. But, non-reverse and reverse were the same for me. I will say my non-reverse felt easier [and] at the same distance as a reverse. It was an effortless feeling [for non-reverses] vs. reverses felt hard. It takes your full body (I felt) and took me a ton of energy to do reverses.

I would hit squats on Monday and I'd be wiped out Tuesday and Wednesday. Maybe Monday I'd throw okay, but the next two days no. Then, I’d hit my hardest olympic lift of the week, typically cleans, on Thursday. This again would wipe me out Friday.  So typical week maybe i'd be okay to throw well Monday prior to squatting and again Thursday prior to power cleans. The rest of the time I'd just work through the pains from lifting! 

But, as I have said prior, I was not a practice thrower. I was always 2-4 feet under what I was at the meets in practice, if not more. Maybe half of the [reason] was just my inability to feel fresh enough to do it.

Why do you think your non-reverses went just as far as reverses?

Maybe speed. As I felt converting the speed to a vertical jump took enormous effort versus the non reverse just felt smooth. [It felt like] a continuous lateral movement of sorts. I had to truly get psyched up for reverses and I did very few, [where the] bulk of work was non-reverse both in stands and glide.

Q: Any mistakes or weaknesses in your training?

In 1985 and 1986 I was a mess. I thought bigger was better. I got huge, 310-320 lbs, maybe heavier. I was very strong those years, but couldn't move. I traveled extensively to Europe in 1986 and found lean was the way to go. I realized I made a major blunder and either I had to correct myself, my diet, my training or quit. That’s from [seeing] Andrei, Timmermann, and Gunthor. I came back after that 1986 season and said I'm changing my life. I got some advice from John Powell of all people, to go to a dietician about any allergies and I avoided certain foods, where I leaned out hugely and in 1987 I was more like 285-290 range, but athletic again. I ran sprints, I jumped and I was a very different person vs. 1985-1986. Now I will say this, and it's not easy to do this, but I do think those 2 years of being fat and strong helped give me an incredible base for 1987 and 1988. It’s hard to do it I guess by sort of ignoring a year or two, but I don't think 1987 would have happened if not for having that base of strength and size in 1985 and 1986. 

One of my other weaknesses was very bad flexibility. I should have done yoga or ballet or something to help my lack of flexibility but never did.

Q: What were your strength levels?

The strongest ever was in 1985 and 1986 when I was way too heavy. I never did a max in anything, [but] I’d do a single or double at the end of a day when I felt strong. I was in the higher 700s for doubles in squats, 500s in bench. Snatch 140 kilos I think, and clean maybe 150-160 kilo range. Those were the four lifts I primarily did, at times I'd do some standing jerks and incline bench.

Q: Who were your technical models?

Art was into Feuerbach, as if a guy that size can do it, I can do even more was my thinking. So, my focus was to be like Al but with more fluidity in the back of the ring, something to get more speed across the ring. My right foot was something that was almost flat-dead [in the middle]. There is a gigantic gain from right foot rotation. I did not pivot it like Feuerbach, but I wish I could, but I couldn't. I tried to turn it as I drove across but I doubt there is any video of me being successful or of me rotating it once it landed. That’s a huge flaw for me, but it's more physical than it is technical. If you look at almost all my throws they were far far [down the] right [sector]. 

I would say the guy I totally dialed in on early on was Timmermann. He was like 90-95% of focus. Timmerman going up on the toe before rocking back on his heel, that was me copying Timmermann. If I could start off with my right foot in an almost toe position it would be easier to get over that circle in the back and have a more dramatic take off or transition from over the right to rocking back away from the right.

Gunthor was just a beast of an athlete, but [I] never really paid a lot of attention to him, he was like 2 meters tall as well and very very athletic. Udo was a fantastic guy and thrower but again massive, and any massive guy that throws far didn't really impress me. I wanted to copy the guys that were far more lean and mean. 

Q: How were your stand throws and what was your philosophy behind them?

I was always 8-10 feet more on glide with Art. So, when I hit say 64 as a sophomore I was stand throwing 55-56, junior year I hit 69 glide and I could stand around 60. Senior year 71 and I would stand throw 61-62, [where] a few meets I hit 72-73 in 1987 I was stand throwing 63-64. You have to move your stand if you want your glide to go up.

I’d say intensity was similar each day, each time. I would always say if I could not get my non-reverse stand sort of going, it doesn't matter if [we’re] talking way back to 55, or later 60, or later yet 62 63, or the end 64 65 that 100% determined my ability to glide well. If I struggled up front, I typically struggled in the glide. I always felt the stand was a huge indicator of how things would go that day and I would sort of know if it was not going to be a solid day.

Q: Did you work after UCLA?

My brother and I have a steel related business. I worked in 1984 after UCLA and Trials were done. I ran right over to work in the shop at the company, as it started in July of 1984. The summer of 1984 and all 1985 working in the shop during the day and training later afternoons were tough on me. But, by 1987 I was inside and 1988 I was working in outside sales, so it was even easier. 

Q: What was the 1987 World Championships like?

I should have been higher up that platform [because] I hit that mark early on. I got sort of complacent. How in the world do you do that…but I did, I thought I had it with that throw. In 1987 I was 22M+ now, [but] that [Worlds} was late in the season, so maybe too big of a gap from my longer throws. I feel like [we] peaked [too] early.  

*Brenner won the bronze medal with 21.75M at the 1987 World Championships in Rome

Q: Can you break down your first meet over 22M?

• Total relaxation in the back

• Good shot of heel raised that was a 1987 start and wasn't there prior. That was 100% Timmerman, but it took balance which I didn’t have a lot of. Sometimes, I would rock to the right, sometimes rock to the left versus firmly middle of the foot. 

• It was dynamic for me but it had its hiccups as well.  Left arm always relaxed high to the sky prior to this shot, then I'd bring it down. If I did it right it went low almost scraping the ground with that left hand.

• To drive out of that not only with my left leg, but taking my head position from straight down, thus shoulders rotated down to falling back

Heel rock, but this is just basically the drive with left, at very same time the rock off the heel and the shoulders letting them go. Art would get behind the circle and ‘push me’ early on to give me that feel. After a few years, I never needed that again, but I was a toe thrower in H.S.. and my 1st year at UCLA Art [needed to convert me. I’d fly across the ring and out of control, but I got the idea of what was needed from that and carried that forever. 

• My catch in the middle is painful to see because of the midpoint of my right foot and knowing it was a lazy foot in all ways, not turned.

• Power position in the middle and the [goal was to] hold shoulders back. My two eyes are focusing on something, someone, behind me.

• Next two are just how I threw, odd to say but since I had no foot position or rotation this is where I say it was hard and painful and took crazy energy to do. To convert that speed across into this monster into lift, I thought of olympic lifts at that point and a vertical jump with rotation.

• A double leg explosion up and around as fast as I could do it. 

*Brenner threw 22.26M at the UCLA vs. USC Dual in 1987

Q: You were the 1984 NCAA discus champion, how would you characterize your technique?

I called myself hop and pop. Now, there I had a pretty big stand throw for discus, [where] I could hit 180-190 pretty easily. I was a terrible technical thrower. I would jump to the middle and jump again due to my lack of right foot pivot.  I think I could have thrown far if i could

have developed that right foot. 

Q: What happened in your final year of competition, 1988?

I had patella problems on my PR day at Mt. Sac in 1987, where I didn't throw the last 2 or 3 rounds due to my left patella. Maybe sometimes [because] too much of a block or non-reverses, as I would snap that left leg hard to get lift on the shot. I did see an M.D. the summer after coming back from 1987 Worlds, and told him. He said I can go in and cut it and [get it] reattached, but [I’d be] done for 6 months, so I said “no way.” It stopped hurting most of fall 1987 and early 1988. [Then, prepping for the season] I was way overtrained, I did big squats one day, the next day threw heavy shot, and did a box jump competition with Jason Bender, a javelin thrower. [We] went from 36 to 48 to 54, I made the first, [then] second jump my right leg went up, my left did not. I tore my patella tendon in half weeks before Trials.

Part of all this going back pains me. I cannot describe where I was in 1988. I was so ready for Trials that year. I truly thought I could in essence open up at Trials with a WR.  

*Brenner’s 1988 training leading up to his career ending injury was the best of his career with many indications of a monumental season. Brenner prefers to keep many of these indications private because he is a big believer in letting the scoreboard speak for itself. Brenner states this is all talk because his potential in 1988 was not able to come to fruition. 

*Brenner’s Progression of his Professional Career:

1985: 69-0.75

1986: 71-5.5

1987: 73-10.75

What is the best advice for throwers?

Really look hard at your weaknesses. The best advice I can give you is just that, take a hard look at yourself and say “ok what am i not [doing]? [Whether it’s] on the body, technique, or both. Working your weaknesses will have the most dramatic effect on your throwing.

Any good stories?

Being Los Angeles we got everyone to visit, Al Oerter walked over to the track and [he came from] somewhere cold. He comes over and starts tossing stand throws in discus and would say as he threw “my arms feel like they’re longer in this warm air.” He loved throwing at UCLA and we all got a kick out of him being there. I’ll never forget 1 year seeing Al Oerter in our UCLA weight room doing 405 on incline press for multiple reps, set after set, that was 1984. He was 45 or something, crazy old guy strength. 

Years ago, before my time, they would have shot put at DisneyLand, at Knotts Berry farm, and various other places.

I saw a deadlift by Fred Hatfield, [whose nickname] is Dr Squat, who passed out on me after doing a deadlift. I was invited to his garage in 1988 to work out with him, where minutes into it, Fred does a heavy deadlift and face plants himself. I run in to get his wife and she says “what did he pass out again?” “Don’t worry it happens all the time!”